Johann Strauss inspired by Brahms?

Our orchestra opened 2011with waltzes & polkas. As always, the mix is surprisingly tiring to play being pretty much the same physical movements all through the concert. Aside from that I find real enjoyment in the quality of many of the pieces, especially the ones by Johann Strauss (Son). My favourite this time was the “Kaiser-Walzer”.
I love the way he throws in a big theme in bassoons, trumpets, trombone and celli a bar early just at the end of waltz no 3; here is the cello part of the last 16 bars leading into the theme: ex 1

Listen to this section including the entrance of walz no 4 (which has its own ambiguity).

When the listener hears it (red cross) the feeling is probably that of a strong start on the main beat of the period. The accompaniment however starts one bar later: ex 2

Try, in your mind to place this theme in a four bar pattern letting it start with a down beat bar. Then try it with the first bar being the fourth in the pattern. Notice how different it feels? Especially when you reach (ex 1) the two bars of extended E in the end where Strauss lets the whole phrase turn over to shift emphasis within the up – down structure.

Finally try scanning it through your mind as starting on the second beat of the four bar pattern. (In the Coda this theme comes back with no tying it up in the end.) Again, different feeling. Which is correct?
I feel we should not attempt to correct what is written here but play the theme as written, starting with an up beat as the double bar makes perfectly clear when we read the score.  Everything then follows naturally with little or no need to fix bowings.

Here is the beginning of the first walz, introduced by three bars of dotted halfnotes in the celli, (not shown here):

The listener, given three bars of introduction will tend to feel the first bar as an upbeat. The harmonic sequence would then fall into place in a way that also fosters this illusion. The second part of this waltz begins on an unquestionable downbeat, bringing perfect variation to the flow of the music.

On the other hand, look at this:

The second symphony of Brahms starts with an up-beat bar in the low register. This is not altogether clear to the listener since harmonically it is leading away from the tonic to the dominant while the next bar finds the music still pursuing tonic material. We are in the limbo of a 6/4 chord from the start.
Later in the movement this upbeat phrase is treated as a motif in its own right and categorically placed on the downbeat – making the listening experience wonderfully full of having to accept the multifaceted ambiguity of human thought. This is one of Brahms’ trademarks. Listen to the beginning and follow along to the timpani entrance: do you have any clue as to where the main beat is? (a diminished chord on top of that adds up to the uncertainty we feel…)

Johann Strauss was aware of and attempting to master these complexities also in his perhaps not altogether light popular music.

Brahms’ 2 dates 1877 , Strauss’ Kaiser-Walzer 1889

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